Apr 30, 1993	Brian Clough - a personal tribute (Garry Archer, Ian ?)
Mar  2, 1994	In Defence Of Brian Clough (Garry Archer)
Nov 23, 1994	Old Big 'Ead Is Back - And In Rude Health (Eric Brown)
Mar  7, 1996	Clough's Signings (Garry Archer)
Mar 21, 1997 	Why Brian Clough Left Derby County (Garry Archer)

Subject: Re: Brian Clough - a personal tribute
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 1993 20:53:26 GMT

ccziec@vax.nott.ac.uk (Stuart Pearce's left foot) [Ian ? ] writes:
>I couldn't let Brian Cloughs retirement go by without some sort of tribute
>from me to the world.

>Brians playing career came to an early end with an injury while playing
>for Sunderland against Bury. He scored the fastest 200 goals in English
>football history (something like 213 games) and gained a paltry 2 England

Cloughie won his two England caps while playing for Middlesborough.  It is
at Boro that he met Peter Taylor, who played in goal, and formed a life-long
friendship and a formidable partnership later in life when they were in
management together.

Clough played at centre-forward for Middlesborough and Sunderland.  He scored
goals --- a remarkable 251 in 274 League matches --- but, to his everlasting
regret, played only three matches in the First Division during an abortive
come-back with Sunderland after his playing career had been effectively
shattered in a collision with Bury's goalkeeper at Roker Park.  His two caps
for England were for playing under Walter Winterbottom.

The one major thing you have to remember about Clough is that he was a manager
that you wanted to play for --- even if you hated him, because he could bring
the best out of you.  Clough also liked a certain group of players throughout
his managerial career and they must have liked him, because they followed him
through thick and thin.  You might recognise some of the names as I mention

After his playing days were over, Clough became youth coach at Sunderland and,
as a result, first came into contact with John O'Hare and Colin Todd.  O'Hare
was a Clough man, through and through, and played at most of Clough's clubs.
Even Leeds United, if I remember correctly.  Clough left Sunderland, I'm not
sure why, but he was bitterly upset about it.

>He then went into management, becoming the then youngest manager at
>Hartlepool United.

He moved from Sunderland to Hartlepool United, who were considered a joke
club then, but only accepted the job if Peter Taylor would leave Burton
Albion to join him.

What a partnership.... Clough's flair for publicity and his inspirational
way with players and Taylor's eye for a bargain (something Clough would miss
in his later years at Forest).  Here's some stuff I mailed to Tim Chown a
couple of years ago:

 A famous success story that has been long forgotten...

 I can't recall when Clough finally retired from playing (for Sunderland)
 when his knee injury could never be restored to peak fitness.  But he
 accepted a job at Hartlepool United.  He took an old Middlesborough
 team-mate, Peter Taylor, from his manager's job at *Burton Albion* with
 him.  Hartlepool had applied for re-election four times in six years
 at the time (perenially at the bottom of the fourth division).  Cloughie
 promised they would avoid the application again and everyone laughed at
 him.  He worked without wages for a long time there and used to go
 around the pubs to drum up cash and support.  Once he signed four
 players, all on free transfer, all on the same day, all in the same pub!

 When he left Hartlepool in 1967 to go to Derby, the team was said to
 be good enough for promotion.  Here's their record for about that time:

 	1959-60    24th
 	1960-61    23rd
 	1961-62    22nd		(Accrington Stanley, 24th, resigns from league)
 	1962-63    24th
 	1963-64    23rd
 	1964-65    15th		(Clough's first full season?)
 	1965-66    18th
 	1966-67     8th
 	1967-68     3rd		(Promoted!)

 Not bad, eh?

Not bad at all, Mr. Clough.  And it wouldn't be the first time that he had
taken a team from the depths to the heights.  Derby County were one of those
teams, his next club.

>After reaching league heights with them, that had
>never been achieved before, he went onto Derby County, taking them from
>the 2nd division to the 1st division championship and to the European Cup
>semi-finals. After boardroom squabbles Clough and his partner for much
>of his successes, the late Peter Taylor, walked out of Derby. The fans
>held protests and marches, demanding their re-instatement, such was
>their popularity, but to no avail.

When Brian Clough and Peter Taylor left Derby it was won of the most
depressing moments in my life, regarding sport.

They had taken a mediocre club and made them into a force in Europe.  It took
a cheating referee to stop them from reaching the European Cup Final at the
first try (Juventus had given gifts to the referee before beating Derby 3-1
in Turin in the first-leg of the semi-final and many calls were questionable).
Clough would return to Europe and win that Final (twice!) though, unfortunately
not with the Rams.

Signing Dave Mackay from Spurs was a genius master stroke.  The media
couldn't believe it.  Dave Mackay, the megastar of the 60s, going to Derby
County?  Bottom of the 2nd division and such an ugly industrial town too, in
the middle of nowhere, going nowhere.  Such was the persuasiveness of Messrs
Clough and Taylor.  Mackay knew there was something special about to happen
and being the "superstar" that he was, he agreed to help.  And help he did.
Clough literally stole Roy McFarland right from under Liverpool's noses and
under Dave Mackay's influence became one of England's finest ever defenders.
Mackay was perhaps one of Derby County's best ever captains as he lead the
Rams back to the 1st division.

Derby County swept through the 2nd division like a house on fire with mostly
a bunch of no-names.  Clough and Taylor would sign old players who were useful
for a season or so, but were valuable and played a vital and important part.
Frank Wignall was one of those players.  Clough and Taylor believed in signing
young players and molding them into stars of their own making.  Then there
were impact players, players like Colin Todd (remember him from Clough's youth
coaching days) and Archie Gemmill and John McGovern (both "Clough Men" who
would follow their master to Nottingham Forest).

Derby took the 1st division by storm too.  On paper the likes of Liverpool,
Tottenham, Arsenal, Everton, et al, should have crushed teams like Derby.
But instead they all left the Baseball Ground, severely thrashed in some
cases, with their tails between their legs after a solid lesson in teamwork
and pure football.  These are traits of any Clough team.  Look at Nottingham
Forest.  Even today as they sink towards relegation, they are still being
lauded for their attractive brand of football.

The 1st division championship came in only Derby's second season back to the
top flight.  Clough was so convinced Leeds United were going to win it (they
only needed a point at mid-table Wolves) that he flew his team off to Majorca
for a well-earned holiday, but also to keep the media away and the pressure
off.  While Derby were partying Leeds lost 2-1 at Wolves.  Clough had won his
first ever League Championship.

And such was the measure of the man.  He could take a bunch of no-names and
mold them into great teams.  He would rarely sign stars.  But he succumbed to
this practice in the 1980s at Forest and ultimately, this may have been his
downfall as few of these "stars" would amount to anything.

Derby had such great days under Clough and Taylor's regime and some great
players came and went in that time.  It will always be my "golden age" as a
supporter.  Dave Mackay kept that golden glimmer glowing for a short while
afterwards, even winning a Championship, bless him, but since that time, its
never been the same at DCFC.

There has always only been one man good enough to take over the England team
in the last couple of decades.  Brian Clough.  (Albeit I really liked Joe
Mercer).  England struggled through the 70s under the tutelage of Don Revie
and Ron Greenwood.  Robson brought some success (nearly making the 1990 World
Cup Final) and Taylor, well... we've all heard the critics there.  Clough may
have already brought either the European Nations Cup or the World Cup home to
England by now.

Subject: Re: Brian Clough
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 1994 18:06:59 GMT

craa27@ccsun.strath.ac.uk writes:
>flannepr@aston.ac.uk (P.R.FLANNERY) writes:
>>   Brian Clough is simply a disgrace to football and the game is better of
>>without him.
>Brian Clough was a talented player, outstanding manager and in his day
>a great commentator for the game. Wimbledon will only be remembered for 
>a trail of assaults on more talented players.

Phew, I'm glad someone else said it.  I was ready to bust a gut when I
read the original article.

Anyone who claims "Brian Clough is simply a disgrace to football and the game
is better off without him" has either just found out that Brian Clough
exists or has been in a coma for the past 30 or 40 years.

Brian Clough's teams have only seen success and have floundered before
he arrived and floundered after he departed.  Just ask the likes of
Hartlepool, Derby County and Nottingham Forest.  He wasn't at Brighton
and Hove Albion long enough to make a great impact -- but he did make the
club more positive.  But he certainly wasn't at Leeds United long enough!
(44 days, isn't that a record in the Football League?)

Hartlepool were taken from perpetual reapplication to stay in the League
to contenders for promotion from Division Four.

Derby County were taken from the dreggs of the bottom of the Second Divison
to classy Second Division and First Division honours and as far as the
European Champions Cup semi-finals.

Nottingham Forest became one of the top sides in Europe winning the
European Champions Cup and virtually owning the 
English League Cup.

His teams have been lauded for their skillful players and attacking flair
and have been admired the world over.

The one major club honour he never attained was winning the FA Cup.  His
Forest team did make the Final, however.

Notice that his teams have succeeded through the dark ages of British
Football, when no British international team has seen any success since
the heady days of the 1960s.  His teams managed to mark pace with stalwart
institutions like Liverpool, becoming their nemesis and archrivals.

If not for his outspoken personality, which you either love (I do) or
hate, he would have been a natural choice as England's manager and
would have restored pride to the national team just as he did for
his club teams.

His truth and honesty apparently still lives on, despite his "illness"
(lets be honest, alcoholism is an illness) and his outspokenness still steps
hard on the toes of who deserve it most.  "The truth hurts", as they say.

I agree.  Wimbledon's reputation as a football club with the style and
type of players they employ is hardly one to be proud of.

Well said, Brian Clough.  And long live the Great Memories.

Subject: RamsNet:  Clough
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
To: swrig@ctp.com (RamsNet)
Date: Wed, 23 Nov 1994


	By Eric Brown

	In the end, he went with hardly a whimper.  Brian Clough, viewed by
many as the best manager England never had, stepped down as manager of
Nottingham Forest 18 months ago and disappeared from public view.

	After four controversial decades in football, the man whose
outrageous comments made him a household name during his heyday in the 1970s
and 1980s simply slipped out of sight and into retirement.

	There were whispers suggesting Clough had gone on a tidal wave of
alcohol that impaired his managerial judgment and threatened his health.

	But now Cloughie is back in the public eye after kicking off his
carpet slippers, leaving the fireside at his Derbyshire mansion and breaking
his silence to talk about his early life and confess that, yes, he does have
a booze problem.

	The bottle is an opponent just as hard to beat as any of the 1,500
or so teams who crossed his path during 41 years as player and manager at
seven different clubs.

	"I do drink too much," admits Clough.  "There have been times when I
have allowed my drinking to take a hold.  I have reached the moment for me to
take a grip on the habit, to address it and make sure it never again gets out
of hand."

	He says his family are concerned about him and adds: "Like all the
other challenges in my life I will face it and bring it under control so no
one need worry about me.

	"No one is going to be able to brand Brian Clough as a drinker who
lost control and could not conquer his habit.  I will beat it.  There are
times when I should be more careful and protective towards my health."

	The 59-year-old soccer sage, in town to launch his autobiography,
now appears in good mental and physical shape.  The blotchy, pitted moonscape
face which looked mournfully on as Forest slipped towards relegation in the
spring of 1993 has disappeared, replaced by a fresh complexion that strips
away the years.

	And what years they were.  Now Sir Matt Busby has gone, only
Liverpool's Bob Paisley could rival Clough for the title of greatest living
club manager.

	League Championships with two different clubs (Derby County and
Forest), two European Cups, four League Cups and the achievement of which he
is especially proud: a record run of 42 Forest matches without defeat in the
First Division from November 1977 to December 1978, were the highlights of
Clough's colourful managerial career.

	   Yet instead of becoming a personality with a mansion and Mercedes,
he could have ended up in prison.  The schoolboy Clough stole fruit and sweets
from shops before being caught lifting stamps from Woolworths.  Firm action
from his father Joseph soon put a stop to it.

	Clough, one of eight children raised in a terraced, Middlesbrough
council house, struggled at school before growing up to rub shoulders with
Prime Ministers and Royalty.

	"Academically I was thick," he says.  "School wasn't bad but I was."
He left at 15, the dunce of the family, and is still sensitive about his
school record.  "When my grandchildren ask me about my qualifications, I get
out my football medals and cups and tell them `These are my O-Levels and

	Clough joined ICI but failed the apprenticeship and ended up a
messenger instead of a fitter and turner.  But football offered escape.  He
had been scoring goals for a non-League side and Middlesbrough took him on
at #7 a week.

	There Clough developed into an arrogant, brash, outspoken but deadly
goalscorer who never forgot his roots.  He proudly wore the flat cap, symbol
of the North East working man, until he was well into his twenties.  Even after
playing for England he collected coal regularly from Seaburn beach for the
family fire at Valley Road, Middlesbrough.

	He is still bitter about his treatment by England as a player (only
two caps) and manager (rejected as national team manager in favour of Ron
Greenwood).  "I scored 42 goals yet that wasn't good enough for the 1958 World
Cup squad.  I'd have made a bloody good England manager.  I was the best man
for the job.  The FA rejected me because they were scared stiff.  They wanted
a diplomat."

	It had been a close shave but Clough's razor tongue cost him dearly.
He broke all the accepted rules of management, taking mid-season holidays,
encouraging players to drink before matches, often restricting training
sessions to a riverbank walk, and, on one famous occasion, organising a tour
of Amsterdam's red light district for his players the night before a European
Cup Final.

	An enigma and a dictator, Clough disciplined players if he spotted
them out of club blazers and ties yet mostly watched matches himself clad in
green sweatshirt and open collar.

	He used violence when it suited, once marching into a dressing-room
at half-time and punching a player in the stomach because he felt he had not
been trying hard enough.  Later he got in trouble for cuffing a couple of
spectators who invaded the Forest pitch.

	He called police to escort an errant player off the training ground
and threw another off the team coach in the middle of nowhere because he was
moaning about travelling.

	Clough describes himself as "arrogant, flippant, pompous, rude,
controversial, outspoken, outrageous".  As if to emphasise the point he
adds: "But I was the best manager in the business."  Few would argue.

	:: Clough, The Autobiography is published by Partridge Press, #16. 99.

	[another book Garry mentions elsewhere:
	"The Great Days Of Derby County" published by Breedon Books.
	ISBN number is ISBN 1-873626-58-4.   Edited by Anton Rippon.
	It is an A4 hardback book and costs 16.95 (pounds).]

Date: Thu, 7 Mar 1996 12:04:31 -0500
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
To: derby-list@ecafe.org
Subject: Re: NEWS!: new signing

Carl Peters (u05cp@abdn.ac.uk) wrote:

> Anyway nice to see Jim Smith pinching players from under the nose of Birmingham,
> it's a good sign when people choose to come to the Baseball Ground over
> anywhere else, means DCFC might mean something these days.

Reminds me of some good ol' Brian Clough stories!  In his younger days
at Derby, Taylor and he would often nip in and get their man before a
player's deal was closed with another team.

I believe Liverpool were interested in a young player at Tranmere Rovers
by the name of Roy McFarland.  Clough and Taylor got to him first.  In
the Derby Evening Telegraph the news ran a Clough quote "We've signed Roy
McFarland." George Edwards, Sports Editor of the DET, said, "Who is Roy

Newcastle United were about to sign one John Robson.  Peter Taylor was
in the north east to watch another player, but noticed Robson in a
neighbouring match.  They signed him instantly, right from under
Newcastle's noses.

Then how about Dave Mackay, a footballing legend for Hearts, Spurs and
Scotland?  Mackay was about to return to Hearts to finish his career.
But Cloughie drove to White Hart Lane and managed to convince the Scot
to sign for Derby.

Everton were _clear_ favourites to sign Archie Gemmill from Preston North
End.  Clough and Taylor wanted him -- badly.  So they drove over to Gemmill's
house in Preston to talk to him.  They ended up staying the night!!!
Gemmill signed for Derby over breakfast the next morning.

Clough used reverse psychology to sign Colin Todd from Sunderland.  There
were several clubs interested in Todd.  Toddy had actually served under
Clough before when Cloughie was youth coach at Sunderland.  Todd believed
Clough had been a major influence in his career and Cloughie ket that ace
up his sleeve.  Even as Clough prepared to drive up to Sunderland he
was announcing, "He's too expensive.  We're not interested."  And drove
up there anyway.  All the other clubs dithered.  Todd's value was in the
region of 150,000 to 200,000 pounds.  No club fancied paying _that_ much
for a defender back in those days (I think McFarland signed for about
5,000 pounds in contrast!!!).  Clough signed Todd that same day for
170,000 pounds.

Cloughie's tactic was simple.  Drive to the scene and make things happen.

Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 11:45:16 -0500

BTW, not many people remember this (I believe it is in his autobiography) that
just before Clough and Taylor resigned from Derby they were in the middle of
signing Bobby Moore and Trevor Brooking.  Apparently it was almost a done-deal
except that West Ham were messing them around.

From: archer@hsi.com (Garry Archer)
Subject: Re: Stuart Webb's Return
Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 
To: derby-list@ecafe.org (RamsNet)

Robert J. Krawiec (crrkr@appsdiv.cray.com) wrote:
> And what about the Alan Storey-Moore "signing" in the '70's? Wasn't it SW who
> introduced him as "our new signing" only for him to go to Arsenal(I think).

That's Ian Storey-Moore in 1971-72 season.  He eventually went to Manchester
United.  Sorry, we can't blame Webb for this one -- somebody better (or
worse, depending on your perspective!), none other than Nottingham Forest FC.
(Yes, yet another "transfer war" between the Rams and Forest!)

Man U. and Derby were chasing Ian Storey-Moore.  Forest gave Cloughie
permission to talk to him.  In that meeting Clough and Storey-Moore
signed a transfer form.  Unfortunately, the form also needed Forest's
signature and they were rejecting the 225,000 sterling bid.  Clough and
Taylor still thought they'd get their man and introduced Storey-Moore
before the crowd at a home game against Wolves.  A week later he was
signed for Man U. instead...

The problem was -- at the time, Derby were more successful than Forest
(ahh, the _Good_ Ole Days!) and Forest had already sold Welsh
international Terry Hennessey down the road to the Rams.  Derby had gone
sniffing for their Henry Newton too, but Forest wouldn't have any of it
and steered Newton towards Everton instead.  Three years later, Newton
ended up at Cloughie's Derby anyway!  But Forest were in deep relegation
trouble around the time of the Storey-Moore "signing" and Derby were at
the opposite end of the table (_truly_ the Good Ole Days!).  It was just
too much for Forest to bear, letting their best player go to the Rams
(again) in such times.

Indeed Derby won the Championship and Forest were relegated.  Also, it
wasn't long before Ian Storey-Moore received a severe ankle injury that
put him out of League football for good.

Its a funny ol' game!

From: archer@hsi.com (Garry Archer)
Subject: Re: LDC: Re: Now: Norman Hunter etc.Was: Eegor! Eegor!
Date: Mon, 16 Dec 1996 
To: derby-list@ecafe.org

DAVIESNM@aol.com (DAVIESNM@aol.com) wrote:

> This all makes me wonder how the likes of Norman Hunter and Tommy Smith and
> to a lesser extent Dave Mackay ever strung a run of more than two games at a
> time. I mean these players were known as 'hard men' and consistently kicked
> the shit out of the more skilfull players. ...

Dave Mackay only knew one way to play... hard.  But that doesn't mean
dirty, vengeful or intimidating.  Mackay was built like the proverbial
brick shithouse.  He was just going for the ball and was a footballer
in the truest sense of the word.

If an opponent was going to challenge for the ball with Mackay, or be
challenged by Mackay for the ball, then more often than not Mackay would

Many players had already been beaten if they saw they were going for the
same ball or were about to be tackled by Mackay.

But one thing most fans overlook -- especially those that never saw him
play -- was that Mackay had skill too.  His distribution of the ball
was wonderful.  Mackay would win that ball and look up to lay off an
inch perfect pass to his midfielders and/or forwards.  As Gerald Mortimer
once wrote, "He remains even now a marvellous kicker of the ball, able to
play it around however it comes to him, with uncanny judgement of length
and weight."

The man was a legend _before_ he went to Derby to play for Clough and
Taylor.  He had won every honour in Scotland with Hearts.  He was a
commanding presence in a Spurs side that won the League and Cup double,
another two FA Cup winners medals and helped Spurs to win the European
Cup Winners Cup (he didn't play in the Final because of injury).

The football world was in shock when he agreed to sign for Derby.  What
the heck was a footballer of Mackay's undisputed pedigree doing going
up to a little industrial town in the East Midlands to a team sloshing
around in the depths of the old Second Division?

Such was the charisma of Clough and Taylor -- who weren't quite legends
themselves at the time.

The _only_ player who has come close enough to Mackay's legendary status
at Derby County since those great days is -- Igor Stimacs.  Now, if only
Igor had a barrell chest ;-)

[fierce picture of Mackay can be found at

Subject: Re: Memories
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
To: derby-list@ecafe.org

michael h day (mickd@direct.ca) wrote:
> The games that stick in my memory, a win over Sheffield Utd to clinch
> promotion to the First Division and the record crowd V Tottenham Hotspur
> (41,000 I believe, hardly room to breathe ...
   41,826 on 20th Sept, 1969 -- yes a far cry from today's crowds.  Regulars
of the Baseball Ground these days should try to imagine well over twice the
number you see now squishing in these days!

> I remember the horror as Clougie was sacked by an ungrateful Board and the
> players locking themselves in the dressing room in protest to no avail.  Who
> knows, if he had stayed it may have been the Rams instead of that club by
> the Trent that won European silver.

Actually, Mick, Cloughie (and Taylor) were not sacked.

On Monday, October 15th, 1973, Clough received a letter from Chairman
Sam Longson issuing an ultimatum.  The cause of this was some of Cloughie's
anti-football establishment statements in the newspapers and on television,
that was causing some embarrassment to the Board members at DCFC.  It was
a threat to fire him if he continued his verbal war on the FA, etc.

Clough, especially, and Taylor said in their office around lunchtime that
day, "We're finishing."  No-one, it seemed, could change their mind.

Sam Longson was contacted that afternoon, but he refused to call a Board
meeting that night.  Instead, he told Clough and Taylor that if they wanted
to finish they should hand in written resignations to the secretary,
Stuart Webb.

Clough and Taylor wrote and submitted their letters of resignation that

Sam Longson met the press on Tuesday morning, October 16th, 1973 and
announced that the Board had accepted the resignations, "with a certain
amount of sadness."  (In truth, Longson had great affection for Clough.)

In protest, Director Mike Keeling also resigned and he joined the Derby
County Protest Movement, an organisation formed to protest and hopefully
force DCFC to reinstate Clough and Taylor.

Needless to say, the players were also extremely upset by the turn of
events.  It was severely distracting to Roy MacFarland and Kevin Hector,
on the England squad to play Poland on Wednesday evening.

Clough was a studio analyst on 17th October, 1973, for the England-Poland
World Cup Qualifying match.  As you know, it was 1-1 and England failed
to qualify.  It must have been painful for Clough, to lose a club he
genuinely loved, to see England go out despite his criticism of the
establishment, to see his players, MacFarland and Hector, whom he would
probably never manage again.

MacFarland and Hector returned to Derby with a double bitter pill to
swallow.  Losing with England and a chance to go to the World Cup in West
Germany (as it was then) and losing their boss within two days.  They
and the rest of the Derby players met with the Board and discussed the
fate of their careers amongst themselves.  Jimmy Gordon had been appointed
temporary manager in the meantime.

Jimmy Gordon's first game as manager was a 2-1 victory over L*******r!!!

On Monday, 22nd October, 1973, the Derby players delivered a letter to
the Board announcing their _unanimous_ support for Clough and Taylor
and aksing the Board to reinstate them as manager and assistant manager.

That same day, Clough and Taylor met the players at the Kedleston Hotel.
In the evening there was a champagne party for players and families at
the Newton Park Hotel.

But it was clear that Clough and Taylor were not returning.  Events were
already churning.

Derby approached Bobby Robson at Ipswich Town.  Robson declined.  Brighton
and Hove Albion fired their manager Pat Saward -- and that is eventually
where Clough and Taylor went to next.  Meanwhile Derby approached Dave Mackay
at Notts F****t.

On Tuesday, 23rd October, 1973, Dave Mackay agreed to take over at Derby.
It was formally announced that evening after Mackay had watched F****t
draw 0-0 with Hull City.

Meanwhile, the players were bitterly upset with the Board because their
letter had not been answered.  The players actually staged a sit in!!!
Roy MacFarland -- a close friend of Dave Mackay after their playing days
-- telephoned Mackay at half-time of the F****t-Hull game and practically
begged Mackay not to take the job!

Mackay, however, relished the thought of managing a talented club like
Derby.  He had managed Swindon Town and F****t for about a season apiece
without any successes.  Something that cut to the quick of a proud
footballing Legend.  He knew the opportunity as good as the Derby job
would not come his way again.

The story continued to take twists and turns.  The players were terribly
unhappy.  A meeting with Mackay didn't resolve it.  They met Clough and
Taylor a second time!  This time at the Midland Hotel.  By then, it was
getting desperate for the players.  There seemed to be no chance for
Clough and Taylor to return.  In response, the players were rumoured to
have threatened to strike.  This was denied somewhat.  The players wrote
a second letter to the Board again asking Clough and Taylor to be resinstated.

Mackay's first match as manager was a 0-0 draw with West Ham at Upton Park.
A game Derby played well and pleased the new manager.  Derby could have
won it, but Hector fluffed a centre from Archie Gemmill.

Clough and Taylor became manager and assistant manager at Brighton and Hove
Albion on Thursday, 1st November, 1973.  "We took the job because we are
out of work," Clough said at a Protest Movement meeting the following night.

The public protests continued for months.  The players were not quite finished
either.  They had written a letter saying that they would not report to
the ground until 75 minutes before their match against Leeds United and
would train on their own. In the end, the letter was never delivered and
ultimately the players decided to admit they were wrong in all their

The club eventually settled down again.  Eighteen months later, Derby were
League Champions again... under Dave Mackay.

Clough and Taylor went through turmoil first (no success with Brighton,
Cloughie's 44 days at Leeds), but went on to eventual success with Derby's
greatest rivals up the A52.  League Championships, League Cups and the
Coup de Grace -- the European Cup... twice.  Leaving all Derby fans for
all time wondering what could have been for them too.

Subject: Re: Memories/clough/taylor
Date: Fri, 21 Mar 1997
From: Garry Archer (archer@hsi.com)
To: derby-list@ecafe.org

"mark tewson" (mark@tewson.force9.net) wrote:
>        First the notion that they were warned to calm down their abuses to
> the F.A, was a smoke screen. The resignations were sparked by the man who
> should be outlawed in the history of our great club, Mr Jack Kirkland.
> This man was invited onto the Derby County board and within a short space
> of time managed to alienate both Clough and Taylor. The final straw came
> when Kirkland had the gaul to ask Taylor,
>  "Exactly what are you duties at the club

I didn't go much into the Boardroom battles before Cloughie and Taylor
resigned, but you are correct, there was a lot going on in the Boardroom
that eventually concluded in Clough and Taylor resigning.

Whether you want to call this being "forced out" is semantical -- the point
being, the Board could never fire Clough and Taylor.  They would have been
crazy, the reaction against them would have been enough to cost them all
their positions.  The amount of reaction as a result of Clough and Taylor
merely resigning is evident of this.

But the Boardroom battles at Derby County just prior to Clough and Taylor
leaving were said to be fierce.

You are correct, that the relationship between Sam Longson and Brian Clough
was excellent in the early stages.  But Cloughie's outspokenness and his
rise in public popularity began to sour Longson's opinion.

Actually, at the 1973 Annual General Meeting Sam Longson revealed he had
sacked Brian Clough _three_times_ (before the resignation on 15th October).
That Clough never left the club on any of those occasions, one is left to
assume Clough ignored him.

Why had Clough's relationship with Derby County soured?  There were many
factors.  Here are some of them:

As Derby's successes mounted, Brian Clough became a man much in demand.
He had been approached by several British clubs during his tenure at
Derby -- but two significant ones were, one from FC Barcelona in Spain
and one from Greece to run their national team.  The Barcelona issue
was particularly explosive -- it caused a huge rift between then Chairman
Sydney Bradley and Clough.  Bradley eventually gave up the chairmanship
to Sam Longson.  With Bradley and Clough at each other's throats, Longson
asked Bradley to resign.  This was all in November 1969.

A succession of Club Secretaries, some administrative blunders and before
you knew it both the Football League and the Football Association were
investigating Derby County FC.  At the same time, Clough and Taylor were
strongly linked with Birmingham City, early in 1970.  After the enquiries
into Derby's books, they were heavily fined.

There was war in the Boardroom, all over money and power.  Sam Longson
eventually disassociated himself from most of them.  Directors Harry Payne,
Ken Turner and Bob Kirkland didn't speak to Longson for months.

Meanwhile, Clough and Taylor had received another offer, this time from
Coventry City, who had offered them three times the salary they were
getting at Derby.  Clough rewarded Longson's treatment and loyalty of
the pair at the time by staying.  Longson announced that he would do
anything necessary to keep Clough at the club.

In April 1970 Longson fought hard and long with Payne, Turner and Kirkland
who were opposed to Clough and asked for their resignations.  He failed
to get them.  He went to the shareholders next, for their support.

This eventually lead to Payne, Turner and Kirkland resigning at the end
of April 1970.  This was an incredible turn of events.  Ken Turner had
been a director since 1964 and was due to be Chairman in July 1970!
Harry Payne had been on the Board since 1953.  Bob Kirkland was
particularly bitter -- and this would later have repercussions.  His
brother Jack would be instrumental in holding the Board together when
Clough and Taylor resigned three years later.

The success of the club depends on the relationship between Chairman,
Manager and Club Secretary.  A new face appeared at the Baseball Ground
in June 1970.  Another new Club Secretary -- Stuart Webb.

Right from the start Webb and Clough didn't exactly get along.  It would
eventually be a factor in Clough and Taylor leaving the club.

The unseen battles behind the scenes raged and simmered for months and
months, but the Ian Storey-Moore episode in March 1972 raised the antagonism
to a head again.

To cut the long story short, Ian Storey-Moore was a brilliant player for
Notts F****t.  Man U. were also after him and Clough was desperate to
beat them and obtained permission from F****t to talk with the player
after indicating how much Derby were going to offer.  Moore was going to
sign for Man U., but Clough stepped in and convinced him to sign for Derby
instead.  The player signed the transfer forms and Derby signed the transfer
forms.  Derby and Clough paraded their "new player" before the fans at the
Baseball Ground before a League match with Wolves.  Unfortunately F****t
refused to sign the transfer forms.  Moore went to Man U. three days later.

This caused all havoc and hell and the Football League investigated the
entire incident and later fined Derby.

Thereafter Clough was more outspoken than ever.  His favourite targets
were the Football League, the Football Association, Sir Alf Ramsey and
Leeds United manager Don Revie.

He was vitriolic in the newspapers as always, but now he was getting
on television more and more.

Clough's continual presence in the media and his increase in popularity
was causing Sam Longson much consternation, and now even he was turning
against his genious manager.  The continual shots at football's upper
hierarchy led to that establishment contacting Longson to perform some
severe wrist-slapping.  Hugely embarrassed, this is what Longson set
out to do.

[On October 15, 1973, Clough received a letter from Sam Longson that laid
down some ultimatums.  The letter included a statement to the effect
that whatever Clough said or wrote or whatever television appearance he
was going to make must be cleared with the Board first.  It also said,
essentially, that if he repeated or continued any "breach of his obligations
under his agreement with the club" they would sack him.]

Meanwhile, the anti-Clough faction in the Boardroom gathered their own

All of which led to the ultimate departure of Brian Clough and Peter
Taylor from Derby County Football Club.